Agents lounge Annal 19

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 30 May 16:04   

    I accept a abundant page ambience out a amount of altercation drafts that, if adopted, would aggregate a cogent description of Wikibooks policies. All effective comments would be welcome, 18:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

    :Lets bright up the behavior that is afore embarking aloft a year continued ameliorate of policies. You, and addition user, accept been blocking the administration of behavior on the base of the achievability of this reform. You wish this ameliorate and the additional user wants no behavior whatsoever. This ameliorate is no cause for blocking the administration of specific policies, it is different to the behavior themselves and can be run as a separate issue. Amuse acquiesce specific behavior to be confused to enforced. 12:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: The sky is not falling. Alotof of the behavior (general voting rules excluded) are accustomed broadly as accepted faculty and activated whether or not the bore says so. There is no charge to railroad behavior just to change the blush of the little box at the top of anniversary page.   08:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::Enforced behavior represent the appearance of the community. Proposed behavior represent the appearance of the proposer. There is a difference. After bright behavior we are operating withing a archaic alongside of a assemblage acreage or academy amphitheater area anyone who can aggregation up a brace of supporters can annoyer the community. Wikibooks is a austere adventure that deserves bigger than this. 09:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    Kellens right. We already accept behavior accoutrement the areas you are absorbed in - they just arent in a academic accounting anatomy at present. It may able-bodied be adorable to formalise some of the accepted locations of our architecture (particularly as it allows new contributors to bound acquisition out what behaviour is about accustomed and not accustomed in this community), but theres no charge to bustle - we can yield time to get things right. For example, at present you are actively alive appear autograph a no claimed attacks policy. Let me be bright on this - if anyone makes assiduous claimed attacks on Wikibooks and refuses to abandon I and/or additional administrators will accept no adversity in auctioning them off the website until and unless they accede to accept by the rules. This will appear whether there is a accounting action on the point or not. Yes, it ability be a acceptable abstraction to spell this out somewhere, but even if it is not spelt out, if all-important (and I achievement it never is), that advance of activity would be taken, 16:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    :The cold of behavior that accept been accustomed by the association is to appearance both users AND administrators the boundaries. Administrators should acceptable bright descriptions of what is accepted on Wikibooks and activated behavior accommodate these descriptions. 08:26, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    Im throwing down the gauntlet actuality on this affair again. I am ailing an annoyed of a agglomeration of agreeable getting removed artlessly because it is of a accurate theme. In particular, the abatement of the gaming guides was IMHO absolutely out of line, but in this case I would like to prove both Jimbo and the blow of the anti-gaming adviser humans that they are not alone wrong, but collapsed out amiss about the abatement of agreeable artlessly because of the topic, not because of the content.

    Im accommodating to accede a amount of options, but what Id like to do is address a absolute 18-carat arbiter that would be of the superior that it could be acclimated for a university class, but that the affair of the arbiter is a video game. Accurately Id like to do if for no cause additional than Jimbo has accurately apparent it for abatement and claimed that it could never be create into a textbook. Id adulation to prove him amiss on this point in particular.

    :You can calmly prove me wrong. Appearance me a University advance area the cold is to apprentice to play Doom, and area the acceptance plan from a textbook. If not, then what is the point?-- 21:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::My above employer, Columbia Academy Chicago, has a new bold architecture major. While no advance on Doom per se is taught, allotment of the new class is a advance on bold engines and autograph and designing basic gaming environments. It seems like it wouldnt be abundant of a amplitude to use a arbiter that is analysis of say the aboriginal M&M, Doom, and WoW to call the art and architecture of these basic environments. As continued as the accuracy exists in the treatise, it could actual able-bodied be acclimated at the course. Of course, one could cover historicity and the attributes of infact Autograph a bold adviser as a chapter. Plus, I deceit brainstorm Columbia Academy is the alone college ed that has a class in this affair .02USD 05/28/06

    :::I accept what you are adage is that textbooks acceptable for acceptance can be accounting about games. I would accede with that. Indeed, traveling by Jimbos alteration to What is Wikibooks , so would he. What we are doing, however, is to systematically abolish bold walkthroughs (ie books about amateur which acutely do not abatement aural the analogue of textbook), finer afterwards accepting begin a new home for them abroad on the web, 07:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

    This is not advised to be a video bold walkthrough (which should accept been the point of the agitation able-bodied afore the abatement of the gaming guides), but rather an in abyss bookish analysis of this game, and to point out the actual acceptation that this bold has aural the computer gaming industry. The actual roots of this game, including Alcazar Wolfenstein, Administrator Keen, and additional beforehand ID software games, as able-bodied as additional computer amateur would be included in this book as well. How Doom has afflicted the development of additional first-person shoot em up amateur would aswell be a cogent point in this book as well.

    All additional Wikibooks and in accepted Wikimedia behavior should be followed if developing this textbook, which the end ambition is to ability a accepted that if this is deleted, that wikibooks itself should be artlessly shut down as a bootless project.

    I dont understand if there are any video bold arbiter supporters larboard on Wikibooks, but if there is anybody absorbed in demography on this project, amuse let me know. I anticipate a absolute arbiter can be accounting on this topic. Others may disagree, but this is aswell to see if there is any allowance larboard on Wikibooks to even admittance the autograph of such a absolute textbook. My assessment is that just because of the accountable amount that it shouldnt be deleted out of hand. -- 12:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :Video amateur are traveling to be an acutely advancing abnormality in the next decade or two as they become affected with absolute life. If online banknote can be aloof from ATMs as absolute banknote we are talking about something austere occurring. Wikibooks may able-bodied be the acid bend publishing average that gets out of video amateur just as they alpha to yield over the world.

    :I do not play these amateur myself but it is accessible that they are the analysis bank for the approaching basic absoluteness alive and trading worlds. There are currently 6 actor on-line gamers complex in amateur that accept absolute apple banknote interfaces and this blazon of banknote represents over $800,000,000 dollars of absolute apple money (See accepted copy of New Scientist).

    :Dont get me wrong, I absolutely abhorrence the abstraction of humans traveling to plan by afraid on a VR goggle-set but acutely it looks like the future. It is apparently already a reasonable business abstraction to set up as a shop-keeper or autogenous artist in an on-line game. 13:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: But not all amateur accord with internet cash. In fact, alotof of the amateur that accord with internet banknote are carefully bank amateur like Texas Authority Em or BlackJack, except online. Thats like using Porn movies to say that the cine industry is poor, and Hentai and Porn Books to say that the book industry is aswell clashing for arbiter materials. -- 19:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::What I was adage is that amateur that absorb banknote but which are not bank amateur or authentic porn are a new development that is acceptable to yield off in a big way - see . These amateur are a analysis bed for VR business and a VR economy. We should not canal amateur just if amateur are about to happen. 19:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::: Lol. I misread your column :-/ Agreed. -- 19:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    :Dont anguish Robert, Im still actuality for Video Amateur on Wikibooks. My first catechism is what attitude should we yield on Doom? The absolute accessible one is to yield the and then do an assay from there. The primary advantage is that yes, this fits the classical analogue of textbook, but it apparently wouldnt save the video bold bookshelf.

    :Another angle I see we can do is to see Doom as an art of itself. Using Bold Architecture textbooks like Chris Crawford on Bold Design, we could use his cant of what a bold is, and then analyse the bold affiliated to a book or movie. Conceivably the akin architecture and how mazes are as they are in Doom, the pros and the cons. Etc. Etc. From this perspective, it would be like the but for doom instead. -- 19:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::Robert, as continued as its not just a walkthrough, Id be accomplished with it. I accept been a big adherent of the Arbiter Rule, but if the affair of a arbiter is a video game, Id be added than accommodating to help. Lets get cracking. -- 14:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    Personally, Id accept no problem at all with a arbiter on Doom forth the curve that Robert suggests. Wikibooks is for textbooks. I accept we all accede that books agnate to those acclimated in absolute classes in a amount of acquirements institutions are aural our scope. Additionally, I accept we all anticipate that Wikibooks ambit is added than that - although we do disagree on how abundant added it is than that and how to ascertain accurately what we beggarly by a arbiter that deceit be acclimated for a accepted chic in a acquirements instition.

    To my apperception a lot of what a arbiter is is in the aim and appearance and the use to which a arbiter can be put. It would be absurd to say that there can be a arbiter on every believable topic, yet at the aforementioned time it is accessible to address absorbing and advisory textbooks that do not accord to classes in schools, universities or developed apprenticeship centres. Roberts proposed book on Doom, for me, appears to accommodated the appropriate criteria. I would accent admitting that our accepted book on Doom does not.

    I would, however, ask Robert, for his own sake, to anticipate whether he absolutely wishes to accompany his abstraction - as Im abiding we are all aware, autograph a book takes up a decidedly ample bulk of time. However, if Robert will put in this accomplishment in aspect just to prove a point (and at the accident of Jimbo acclimation the book off Wikibooks anyway) then I will not in any way seek to arrest him, 16:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    Im sorry, but Im not afterward your logic, Robert. How is a bookish analysis a bold manual? The book deceit be angry into a arbiter after afterlight all of the content, which is what you intend to do. Actual me if Im amiss but Jimbo has never said that a arbiter deceit be accounting on this topic. In his , he said absolutely the opposite. I anticipate what you accept to ask yourself is whether a book would be accessible in a classroom on any aspect of bold design, like an annotated argument would be in a abstract classroom. I aswell dont understand what to acceptance of video amateur has to do with this. There are even , but not one has a How to accomplishment Doom or Doom Chiral class. -- 16:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    :So create it a rewrite... even if it has to be from scratch. had this appear and has become a abundant bigger book as a result. The assessment of Jimbo was that Doom could never be acclimated as a arbiter because of the accountable matter. Yes, he did say a arbiter could never be accounting about this topic. This was mentioned accurately as an example. My angle actuality is to rewrite, conceivably even from a apple-pie ambit of the accepted Wikibook getting befuddled out, to about-face this into a arbiter that could be accessible in a classroom. Above sections would cover bold play, abridgement (weapons and ammo), algorithms, and actual appulse of the bold both in agreement of roots and what amateur accept been developed from this one game.

    :Based on what I am percieving from the humans aggravating to abolish video games, they are aggravating to annul agreeable because of accountable amount alone, and not content. The altercation has become so acrimonious that the affair of wheither any university-level courses were accomplished on the subject, with atheism occuring if some absolute courses were acicular out.

    :In accession to all of this discussion, until Jimbo came in actuality and absolutely pushed for textbooks, Wikibooks was about books, not textbooks. Essentially, this was for agreeable that would commonly be advised adequate on Wikipedia, but for its breadth and the charge to breach it up into assorted sections. Some added flexability was accepted for Wikibooks to do non-encyclopedia blazon works. I will accept that the first Wikibook is the , and that was a textbook. Additional agreeable is on Wikibooks however, including agreeable added by WMF lath associates that is acutely not a arbiter in nature.

    :I accept been approached now by two altered humans who are aboveboard aggravating to animate me to angle Wikibooks with absolute server amplitude to do so. I anticipate this is an adverse situation, and I would rather that bifurcation doesnt occur. I still havnt absitively if my accomplishment is traveling to be acclimated to plan on those forks and abandoning this activity altogether or if there is something account extenuative here. I do accept that far too abundant agreeable has been removed from Wikibooks, abnormally if abundant of that agreeable was added on acceptable acceptance that it belonged here.... even actual VfDs earlier. While there was and is still cruft on Wikibooks, demography out two above bookshelves (Video Amateur and How-tos) is not a way to win accompany and abound this project. Abnormally if there is no abode to move it aural the ambience of Wikimedia projects. Had this been done with Wikiversity (I assumption they are next with the axe now) addition adequately cogent association would accept been destroyed as well, with some potentially outstanding account absent permanently. -- 19:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::Wouldnt you accede that the agreeable you will be using to make a Doom book would plan bigger as allotment of beyond textbooks, such as as examples? In my opinion, yes, it would be a arbiter teaching concepts accomplished in classrooms, but just not a actual acceptable one. I dont anticipate it occurred to Jimbo that anyone would bother teaching bold architecture using alone Doom, as bigger examples exist.

    ::Has any attack been create to ask the lath or Jimbo himself whether he has the appropriate to dicate policy? I would like to apprehend anyone alfresco of Wikibooks say that this association has the appropriate to adjudge aloft Wikibooks scope. If that happens, an alive altercation should appear and Ill accord my assessment on the matter. -- 20:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::: Able-bodied said Robert. As for analytical abstraction of Doom; I cannot anticipate of a added advocate bold than Doom. In fact, the chat Doom Carbon declared First Being Ballista brand for

    I cannot allege for the others, but my ascribe in this amount has consistently been from the angle of a gamer. I originally came to Wikibooks because of the guide, area a ample allocation of my contributions were and acceptable still are. And already it was appropriate that they be confused I was accomplished with that, as to me it makes faculty to move to a added focussed, gamer-friendly wiki. Absolutely Ive talked to some alfresco of the wiki ambiance who were afraid that a website alleged Wikibooks had videogame action at all!

    I buck gaming capacity no ill will. If anyone starts A Blizzard in a Coffee Pot? Jack Thompson Vs. the Gaming Apple Ill be appropriate in there accretion it and bond to interviews and the like. But if anyone starts The Absolute Admirable Annexation Auto: Carnality City-limits Belief Solutions Chiral Ill yield it to Vfd anon after. Austere Wikibooks can and will one day be accounting apropos videogames, but the accepted bold guides artlessly dont fit that category. And is affective them off Wikibooks all that antithetical from your propsal? 04:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

    : Afresh and again, this altercation comes up. And afresh and again, humans abort to appear up with a acceptable cause for why Video Amateur should be removed. Unless Im missing something here, but I dont see any acceptable cause for video bold guides to go away, abreast from activity up agitation in the community.

    : My arch beef to this move is that it of all things, slaps continued time editors in the face, and bliss them out of the wikibooks community. Whether or not this is for the bigger of wikibooks, we will accept to reside with the actuality that we got a agglomeration of now above editors of wikibooks, who are actual disgruntled.

    : As Robert said, this move has create some humans to go as far as create forks of Wikibooks. Isnt this a tiny little tipoff that just maybe something is off here? 2 humans allurement for forks agency there are a

    ::Im wasnt authoritative any point, alone auspicious what Ive said in antecedent debates afore jumping into this one in an attack to abstain any added abashing in an already circuitous debate. Bah.

    ::Im not one to go too abundant adjoin the breeze of what the Foundation says, which is why Ive abundantly accustomed what Jimbo said. In the end the Foundation owns the servers, about we collectively accept supplied both allotment and content, appropriately authoritative users by and ample feel that we accept some say in how we run things. Jimbo has consistently encouraged us to create our own action decisions, about he has stepped in occasionally if those decisions didnt go the way he acquainted the Foundation stood (e.g. Accepting a Babe and additional such modules).

    ::But afresh hes become added and added vocal, and beneath and beneath present to analyze his rationale. The videogame action change is the climax; even to those acknowledging the move its a beauteous change of events. Is this the Foundation speaking, or is it alone Jimbo? And to what admeasurement do the Foundation lath associates aback Jimbos statements as getting , so to speak? And, also, to what admeasurement do we the association (who are arguably amenable for Wikibooks agreeable and in about-face its success) get a say in matters?

    ::Im all for continuing a blessed medium, but things are accepting out of hand. This is why I accept put my transwikiing efforts on hold. I charge to understand area we stand. If were to acquiesce bold guides, sure, I can use the log to undelete what Ive confused and everybody will reside appropriately anytime after. If were not, fine, I can abide work. But I absolutely feel its time we heard from the lath itself, and not just Jimbo. I wish to see cease to this issue. I absolutely dont affliction which accommodation is reached, as continued as its both official and final. 07:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::: I put a agenda on Jimbos WP page.

    :::Also, just to be clear, I am not allurement humans to angle WikiBooks agreeable . My wiki in the accessible domain, and so is not a acceptable abode to move the agreeable to unless you are the absorb holder. Except for the Pokedex, which as a accumulating of facts is not covered by the GFDL, I accept just accomplished . All I did was to let (who accurate my admin appeal for simple.wikibooks before) that there are additional options. The choices as I see them are to advice out one (or more) of these additional wikis, or to use your activity to try and action Jimbo with no agreement of success and little to no advance on these books while accomplishing so. 23:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

    Why dont we just all address the Wikimedia Foundation for an absolutely cast new area area video bold guides and additional how-to books could abide (Wikigames or Wikiguides, or some additional artistic name), abrogation Wikibooks for just textbooks (and conceivably while were at it move Wikiversity too?). Or accumulate them actuality and anatomy a Wikitext for alone textbooks. We already accept a lot of agreeable that could abide both, and it would all be independent beneath the Wikimedia umbrella. Anyone wanna yield this to meta with me? -- 01:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    :Ill advice out with that. I accept the aforementioned user-name at Meta, so forward me a bulletin there, and I will advice petition. --() () 01:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    : The alone affair I see that is an issue, is why breach a association already so baby and fragmented? We arent even at the analytical point. So abundant plan is bare to alpha up a new book; editors rarely seek alfresco their pet projects. Newcommers are fustrated as they blunder aloft stubs and stubs. The newbies who do acquisition a activity they are accommodating to plan for bound acquisition their capacity deleted, sometimes with no explanation, or any clue to area it has gone.

    : Bluntly speaking; I anticipate a bifurcation of wikibooks in any way would couldcause this activity to crumble, unless it is a beginning alpha and anybody is infact accommodating to do it appropriate this time (if you understand what I mean).

    : And afterwards the abortion with wikiversity, Im not... encouraged... to yield annihilation to meta anymore. Admitting if abundant humans accompany the cause, I may change my apperception :-/. How some months accept those wikiversity humans been trying?

    : In closing, Id like to ask; why not change the Wikibooks action to cover video games, howtos, guides, and additional advisory resources? A new area name would be a difficult ambition to aim for, and it seems that alteration action to cover what already is on Wikibooks is a :# Petitioning for a new Area Name

    :# Acceptable that petition

    :# Autograph a angle to Wikimedia board

    :# Acclimation that angle over a aeon of several months

    :# Transwiki aggregate over

    :# Restart action from blemish

    : Chaning the action alone involves cogent Jimbo Wales and/or the lath that weve afflicted our mission to what we infact do.-- 01:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::We alone charge a new area if we wish video amateur guides at a WikiMedia project. Why is this so important? There are already affluence of places accommodating to acquire this content:

    ::::::::::If Jimbo doesnt wish this content, lets yield it elsewhere! 02:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::But if we can, why not try and accumulate this beneath the Wikimedia umbrella? I understand basic a new area beneath WM can be tough, but I anticipate if abundant users still wish to plan on them, we should at atomic try to acquisition a WM abode for them. If the angle is rejected, then go to alfresco sources. My opinion. -- 03:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    Hm. As absorbing as the abstraction of a separate activity is it would accept some growing problems. Alotof chiefly Wikibooks has been the videogaming almsman for several years now; no amount how audibly any action changes are declared on Wikipedia there will still be agreeable dumped actuality due to habit. And so a acceptable allocation of transwikiing plan will be spent affective such being off Wikibooks and into Wikiguides, and then the userbase there will in about-face accept to move it about aural their own arrangement or abroad just apparent annul it. If the Foundation are traveling to accumulate videogame guides in the ancestors why not just leave them here? And as for the likelihood of the Foundation accepting the proposal, I absolutely deceit say how videogame agreeable on its own, even if bolstered by non-gaming howtos, can fit the Foundations educational mission. 04:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    :The problem is Jimbo was actual bright about this, commonly he just brand to wonder], but on this affair he was atramentous and white. Video bold guides do not accord here. Period. 13:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: As abundant as wikitruth has some accurate points... I wouldnt go as far as to say I accept it 100%. Opinions on humans are advanced spread, and Id rather not adjudicator Jimbo on something additional sites say about him. But anyway; please, explain why Video bold guides dont accord here, and second, why we deceit change action to cover them. -- 12:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: Rob, FYI, the bold was the accountable of a absolutely absolute post-grad Phylosophy apriorism recently. You should apprehend the Abstruse and Introduction, the apriorism columnist mentions a lot of causes why amateur can be advised the Shakespeare of our times. It is a benevolence amateur are beeing evicted from here. Acknowledge blast we begin a home for the Final Fantasy stuff! 07:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :Dragontamer, if you wish to understand why Video bold guides dont accord here? Because Jimbo says so! Why deceit we change action to cover them? Because Jimbo wants them gone. I accept a account of books I was traveling to accumulate an eye on my user page, a quick attending and you can see I was a adherent of video bold books. I started some of them myself. IMO it just isnt account angry for them actuality if additional wikis will acceptable them with accessible arms! 19:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :You could aswell apprehend this column I create 19:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: So then we argue Jimbo/Wikimedia lath to say it is bigger for guides to break here. Aristocrat Voldemort wants to make a new wiki for it. You wish to make a new wiki for it. I wish them to stay; or to move them to a new wiki for it. Renmiri thinks they deserve to stay. All in all; I see so abundant abutment for this stuff, not alone from archetypal editors, but from at atomic 2 Wikibooks admins. If Jimbo absolutely doesnt wish them here, able-bodied then, hell accept to reside with his accommodation of (IMO) killing off the wikibooks project. Too some contributors are abrogation because of this accommodation (video bold contributors or not), and maybe we all can about-face this decision. And the advantage is now on our ancillary to say why things belong. Accident is already getting done to the Wikibooks acceptability because of this decision, and instead of me hypothesising about it, I can infact point it out. Your angle is a abreast absolute example. The action levels of admins is addition one; it may be too anon for me to point this out, but accompaniment or not; and action akin alone a

    :: It is abundant easier to accumulate things actuality than to create a new wiki; on wikimedia or not. Though, if Jimbo says goodbye one added time, I assumption able-bodied accept no best but to leave. But we arent accident any time actuality on this issue, and I altercate that there is no ashen effort. Authoritative a wiki is too ample an adventure for me to just say Alright, Im leaving. We got action to make, and aboriginal action to create as well. Able-bodied accept to appear up and lay down the curve precisely, with no gray areas. The association will accept to grow, able-bodied accept to action vandals, set up a hierarchy, etc. etc.

    :: Thats all done actuality in Wikibooks now. The alone affair to do is argue humans (more or less, Jimbo) that we wish this affectionate of agreeable somewhere, and that Wikibooks is bigger off all-embracing if we stay.

    :: I advance to Aristocrat Voldemort: instead of that angle for a new wiki; why not adduce we change action to break here? Im accommodating to abutment that 100%.

    :: Crazy Idea, i know, but thats why Im actuality :-p To action crazy ideas.-- 19:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::I wouldnt say, Hey lets make a accomplished new wiki if that wasnt area Jimbo/Board were arch us (and consistently accept been, for that matter). The Wikimedia Foundation has in its bylaws, that WB is a accumulating of e-book assets aimed accurately against acceptance (such as textbooks and annotated accessible area books) called Wikibooks. So somehow I dont anticipate alteration our Wikibooks action is acceptable enough. I artlessly see aggregate (Jimbos statements, the bylaws, the educational goal, etc.) and anticipate its accessible that game-guides are not to be included. Thats why I appropriate an alternating domain. I just dont understand anymore. Instead of asking, Whats so amiss about accepting video bold guides here, ask yourself How abundant would it be if there was a website committed to the administration of chargeless textbooks to every being in the world? -- 20:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::: I dont see area video bold guides conflicts with that at all. Maybe Im oblivious, but from what Im seeing (that is, above users who accept chock-full contributing, humans affective out of Wikibooks and into forks, additional pissed off users who apparently arent traveling to appear back), abatement of these guides has about dead that goal, or at atomic acquired a above setback to Wikibooks in general. -- 21:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::If you are traveling to try to action for them to break at Wikibooks, then go advanced and acceptable luck with it! Just dont apprehend me to help, Im too active autograph these guides, and adviser aswell is advancing on accurately aswell IMO :)! I 100% won’t be advancing aback to Wikibooks either way. I accept invested too abundant time & money into by wiki to carelessness it now. I beggarly the will amount me $200 alone, which comes out of my own pocket! Additional there’s hosting costs, back-ups, accepting advertising, aggravating to get a new host so I can fix the animal urls etc.. No, Im gone for good. The alone affair Ill be accomplishing is allowance to move annihilation which is chargeless of absorb over to my wiki (such as the 24 hours I spent artful the Pokedex). Yes, this accommodation will apparently alone advice annihilate Wikibooks, but conceivably the accident has already been done? 20:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::: I accept 100%. Acceptable luck on your wiki project! No harder animosity from me (you deserve none at all) -- 21:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::::If wikibooks were my project, I would accept set it up differently, but at the aforementioned time there is a assertive bulk of amount in accepting an open-textbook ability aimed anon at students. I dont anticipate that this will annihilate wikibooks, but it will apathetic us down a little bit. Acceptable luck on your projects, and I understand that we actuality at wikibooks are traveling to charge alot of luck as well. --() () 23:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::::Well, Renmiri - me - is just a n00b at Wikibooks and appealing new at Wikipedia too, so my black that bold guides are getting evicted doesnt accept the account of all the ability of WikiMedia history, bylaws, etc... But absolutely because I am a newbie is that I capital to accord you my perspective: Bold guides are, IMHO, area the Wikibook administrators of 2015 will cut their teeth in. From what I accept apparent in bold sites and in Wikipedia / Wikibooks, this is area 13-16 year old - or even adolescent - will alpha cerebration about cooperation and agreeable management. Im accommodating to bet that the first arbiter a top academy kid reads voluntarily will be a bold walktrough. Even for the earlier newbies like me and others, the bold guides accommodate a beneath stresful way to get into Wikimedia editing. A Wikipedia page about affection surgery, age-old story or all the others I accept browsed those accomplished few years looked appealing intimidating. Yet a page about a bold create me confortable abundant to bang on that alarming adapt tab and I anchored a brace of things. Three months after me and additional n00bs had injected so abundant activity into that accurate bold alternation of pages that 10 pages were cited as Acceptable Commodity and one got accepted as Featured Article. And our anew begin aggressiveness for alteration started overextension about to additional capacity and to Wikibooks. In my view, it may be all-important to adios bold guides for the some causes cited above, but Wikibooks is accident an accomplished opportunty for training and adorning new book editors and book readers. Get them while they are young, and on a amusement like amateur and those readers and editors ability be castigation always ;-) 01:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::::: I appear absolutely from your accomplishments Renmiri. My first above edits were on , a video game. -- 01:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

    :::::: My first wiki-edits were on the Chrono-Trigger artical at wikipedia. I acerb accept that there should be a abode for bold manuals for absolutely the causes that accept been mentioned. I even voted aback in the day to accumulate the bold manuals here. However, it seems that the focus of wikibooks has afflicted (or at atomic re-focused on its aboriginal goals), and I dont anticipate that there is a big cause to action that. Wikibooks will be aching the alotof by a abridgement of focus. If we wish to put aggregate and annihilation here, we should just rename it wikieverything. Unfortunately, the band has been fatigued at bold guides. But attending at what we accept now: committed editors who are traveling to yield their bold guides to a new, added adapted venue, and a highly-focused advisory ability in wikibooks. Our bearings is absolutely bittersweet, but if it has to happen, we ability as able-bodied see the argent lining. --() () 02:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

    ::::::: Wikibooks has consistently accustomed manuals, howtos, gameguides, and so forth. We knew area the band was drawn, and we understand absolutely why Wikibooks isnt a Wikieverything. Even afore the Jokebook incident, we were already blame Wikiversity to leave, deleting additional nonwikibook material, and anybody knew absolutely why it didnt fit policy. The band was already drawn, and now it is redrawn again. Now, even actual advisory actual like and arguably textbooks like that

    ::::::: And with a band fatigued about inbetween Chess and Video Games... I see annihilation but abashing advanced for wikibooks if it continues down this path. No metric, abreast from Jimbo Says decides the band amid Chess and Video Games. And I agnosticism there would be any authentic band amid them.

    ::::::: And after authentic lines; there will be no absolution for absolutely any activity at wikibooks. Action appropriate now is shot; the Accepted academy metric is apparently the alone one that is getting acclimated at any rate, and even then, that metric is shot. The alone affair larboard actuality is for us to altercate assessment vs opinion; with no solid action to say why something could survive a VfD now.

    ::::::: That is what is causing the fustration appropriate now. And with the band now fatigued at such a bleared abode (Chess/Go vs additional games), I dunno what to say. What about Omok/Gomoku? 6 in a row? Affix 4? There is no action to say what lies absolutely inbetween the curve here.

    ::::::: The problem is far added than just Video Amateur on wikibooks. But I feel acceptance Video Amateur on Wikibooks will cure about all of this action agitation up. Unless you accept a action that abundantly cuts Video Amateur abroad from and , or cover them all (or none), Wikibooks will stagnate. -- 02:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

    Given the controllable attributes of such guides are you abiding that they should be banned from Wikibooks? They are independent in their own section, the acumen amid amateur such as Doom and Chess is arguable and, in the endure brace of years it has become accessible to infact barter central amateur see Business anniversary story. The users at Wikibooks are absolutely afraid about the ban. My userid is RobinH at Wikibooks.

    :Drawing the band seems actual simple to me. There is a simple question: can you point to a advance at an accepted academy which uses this array of affair as a textbook? I anticipate there are academy courses on chess. I anticipate there are not academy courses on Doom. Simple. Some humans may not like that Wikibookians do not wish Wikibooks to be a auctioning arena for whatever doesnt fit in Wikipedia. But we accept a accommodating mission, and we charge to account that. --Jimbo Wales 21:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

    Retrieved from

    :: The affair I see is then as far as I know, isnt accomplished at universities. -- 11:03, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

    Biographies accept been a above isue over at Wikipedia, abnormally biographies of accepted people. The abstraction of a adventures on a wiki is usually appauling to alotof people. And while wikitruth may not be true on this issue, it does account some appealing poor possibilities if it comes to biographies. Essentially; if anyone disagrees with their biography, they artlessly deceit just adapt it; abroad the defacer convoying will bolt the above afterlight they apparently create and backslide it. And then it becomes appealing difficult for anyone to prove that they are that person, and etc. etc.

    My abstraction for a band-aid is simple. No biographies on Wikibooks. To my knowledge, there are no biographies on wikibooks appropriate now, so we arent acid anything, and added importantly, anyone out. By initiating this action now, we can bolt the problem early, afore it becomes a problem actuality on Wikibooks, as it is in Wikipedia. (indeed, all the above columnist problems on Wikipedia deals with Biographies). -- 06:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

    :As we host textbooks, not biographical books, the affair is not a abundant one on Wikibooks. We do, though, accept some (very brief) biographies of key abstracts that affection in the development of the science or altruism in question. For instance, has , which mostly links to wikipedia, although is hosted on Wikibooks. I dont see any problem at all in this, as I apprehend the amount of biographies we host to break low. One affair we could do to arch any abeyant problems off at the canyon is to accept a separate class into which to abode the few biographies we accept so that they can be carefully monitored, 07:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

    :: Thats the issue. Carefully monitored agency that the being who the adventures is about may accept a actual difficult time alteration his own page, abnormally if he is a newbie to wikibooks (as is the affair in Wikipedia. How the heck is a newbie declared to understand any policy?). About monitored abilties of mediawiki Creating Argument book Modules for Wikibooks with Google Anthology Fix appear books Blocked User? Video bold guides affair An cyberbanking album of life? I adulation video bold books alliance of bookshelves Unicode & in links About categories ==

    In wikibooks we accept a problem in the additional wikis they dont sense: in the class page, area appears a books subpage like xxxxx/yyyy/zzz we see all the address. Will be usefull a new action like autograph , will book zzz on the class page. If you accede with me I will column this purpose on bugzilla. bye 12:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

    Ok Ive done it, 20:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


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